Apple Cinema vs Other Monitors
Posted by 7Shadows • 713 Views • 23 Replies • FacebookTwitter
Posted by 7Shadows • 713 Views • 23 Replies • FacebookTwitter
Yeah, I've worked with Dells at school, I hated how the monitors were calibrated because there was a big colour difference between those and my NEC. Everything I had looked so dark and muddy, which was a pain in the ass to fix as I was working on my animated short.
I'll consider also getting me an Apple monitor later on, I'm getting sick of seeing the colours on my paintings look so different on every monitor I see.
Well, I've to say I was pretty surprised to read that entry. Especially coming from you Meng. I don't think what I've said was ridiculous at all. And I find that a bit borderline... That said I'll try to explain why I recommended Dell or Samsung as alternatives for Apple's Cinema displays.
There is at least 6 points to look at when you are buying a monitor :
1 - Resolution
17" and 19" are almost all displaying 1280x1024 pixels. 20" 4/3 are displaying 1600x1200 pixels. 20" wide and 22" are displaying 1680x1050 pixels. In theory the wide format should be better for movies but in practice that's not the case : almost all the monitors in that format are swarming when it comes to movies.
2 - Response time
This is the time needed by the monitor to switch from a white dot to any level of gray and the come back to white. The lower is the better
3 - Screen type
This is a data that is almost never revealed by the manufacturers but this is a key data. There is 4 families : TN, IPS (rare because expensive), MVA and PVA. There is a lot of differences between those technologies and I will not come into details. From what I can say : PVA is the better for colors but does not fit for the movies, MVA is the most multipurpose and TN is the better for the games. IPS is almost like MVA but have a higher response time and better viewing angles.
4 - Viewing angles
The choice here is really a matter of taste and depends of what you'll be doing with the monitor. The angles are better on MVA and PVA screen types.
5 - Brightness
The best value is not the better. Webdesigners almost always set the brightness to 110cd/mē or even 90cd/mē and I guess Meng can confirm that. Here, this is also a matter of taste.
6 - Contrast ratio
The higher is the better. Higher the contrast ratio is, better is the black. Screens with a low contrast ratio will confuse grays and blacks.
Let's take the Cinema display 23" HD for the example (Meng owns one and should be able to react to that without spitting on Dell).
Yes, Meng is right, that screen is one of the best out there. The design is really fine, the screen type is IPS (so we have good viewing colors and a great color rendering) and the brightness is not too high. In fact the only con I know about this monitor is that by default the colors are not setup right. Of course that's something that can be worked around.
But, if you search for alternatives, you can find some :
The Dell 2407WFP. It's sold at a lower price than the Cinema display 23" HD (thanks to the coupons offered from time to time by Dell), it has a S-PVA screen type and therefor a better response time and great colors. (Note that the Dell 2707WFP is also a good choice if you want a 27" monitor).
The Viewsonic VX2435wm. Maybe the best monitor out there. Very multipurpose, and sold at a low price compared to Dell or Apple.
Of course, there is also some great models from Samsung, Acer or LG, but I have to agree on the fact that they can't face the 3 models I have described here.
What I want to say here is that Meng is totally wrong in his comparison. You can't look at a Dell monitor and say "Dell is crap, Apple is better I tell you I have seen it". And why is that ? Because Dell sells much more monitors than Apple, and yes some are crappy but not designed to face Apple Cinema displays.
You can't classify monitors manufacturers. There was a time Iiyama was the best, and now do you even hear about them ? The answer is no. Because times are changing : some manufacturers are getting worst, some are getting better, etc... The fact is that you have to see the monitors by your own eyes before making your choice. Design is not all. Apple is not always the best and same thing is valuable for other manufacturers.
In the end, am I that ridiculous ? I don't think so. No offense taken anyway.
that's a solid argument. and probably, Dell could have gotten better -- just like any of these manufacturers and you should really look into it.
But, i have yet to see one. and it's not because they came up with better monitors now that it will fix the crappy ones from before hoping to get a little better reputation from me. sometimes, it's not even about the specs, sometimes those specs are just marketing stunts. i like to see it with my own eyes. but i think your points about models are valid tho.
i think people should take my review as a "safe" and "overall" judgement of those manufacturers.
i worked at pixilis and there was this designer who had a Dell and just couldn't work with his and asked to switch. that's pretty recent -- 8months ago. again, i need to see one from Dell that's at least decent.
i spit at dell because when I bought those monitors, they were not only costy, but had the worst colors. that has caused me a lot of troubles.
and dell sells more because they're cheaper, especially bundled with their machines. also, we're talking about choosing it for artists/designers and having the truest colors for printing and stuff.
the end user won't make a difference... still, i dont know the numbers, but apple does sell a lot too. but i don't even think that's a point at all.
I have seen the Dell 2407WFP and I can say it's stunning. You should see it. I know Dell has a bad reputation, but that's not the kind of company I will compare with Apple, that's all. Simply because Dell is targeting a much wider audience and therefor some of their products are not good enough for people like us. I must say that's the thing that is great about Apple is that they always make the best products they can, and that in part, explain their higher price.
I totally agree with the marketing stunts. Sometimes manufacturers are advertising falsy facts and that's why you should buy your monitor in a store to see the thing by your own eyes. I remember that Samsung monitor that was selling really great because it has been getting some really good reviews from the press. But 3 months letter, Samsung was shipping the same monitor, under the same ref, but with a crappy "screen type" that they were getting at a lower price (btw i don't know if it's screen type in english, it's called "dalle" in french). For that, Samsung is probably not recommendable.
Indeed selling figures are not the point at all. I'm talking about what I have seen and I know the market ;)
Jun 30th, 2007i know you know your market, and i do really respect your points. ;)
i just thought that not every designer has your knowledge of what to choose between models and the history behind the manufacturers, therefore, i felt the need to give my own little advice. hehe
Hey you edited your post you cheater.
Anyway, I have just seen a mistake in my statement , when I say "Because Dell sells much more monitors than Apple", I mean that they have a larger line of products :)
lol, i edited thanks to you. you should good about it for making a valid point that i had to edit my entry hehe
Jun 30th, 2007lol, that's probably the longest topic in the young history of SN7 ;)
Jun 30th, 2007apple cinema. hands down.
Jun 30th, 2007The strong argument for me...
"If you need a monitor for a Colorsync workflow... sharp and durable, go for Apple."
I don't care if the others are cheaper... Apple have some kind of color obsession from a long time.
Talking about clients, all related to editorial and other print stuff, use Apple... so when I send or show a preview, color looks exactly the same... that's priceless.
I know there are some other great options... the fact is I don't care, I need to work ;P
By the way, last week some of my works were printed, 6 posters... I was impressed by the color accuracy.
Jul 1st, 2007Ok, creepy. just yesterday I was looking at 23" Apple Cinemas and thinking "wtf would i buy that. ms is 14, my dell ultrasharp 24" is 5, and its $300 cheaper".
My first LCD was a ($800) 20" LG. I never could get it calibrated right -- i hated it to be honest. The 17" $200 Westinghouse i bought for my 2nd computer had a much colorful brighter display - and i didnt even need to calibrate it.
Last October, I bought a 24" widescreen Dell Ultrasharp. Since i've had the monitor, I've noticed the Reds on it are indeed red, while they favor a maroon pigment on my 17" macbookpro's display.
While I would trust that Apple displays are indeed in the top 3 of 'best monitors', I'm just not sure I can justify spending $900 on one. The only saving grace is -- I dont play games on my mac, so the 14ms wouldn't be a big issue.
So, yeah, Dell may've been bad ( i really don't know, my personal experience are very small with different brands ), my investment has been well worth it.
I do plan on rechecking Apple prices in the next few months, after I pay off my alienware system ( $2k to go wuwu! ) I will be looking for a larger display for my mac.
You literally get what you pay for when you buy electronics though. if you buy the cheapest - it gonna suck hehe.
Actually, Apple Cinemas aren't that good for highend professional usage.
Eizos rule. They just rule. Perfectly accurate color, sharpest screens, and very nice warranties IIRC. Expensive like the Cinemas are, but much more worth it.
The Cinemas, to its very core, is still using consumer panels (just the better ones like Dell's ultrasharp does)
Never heard of Eizos. got a link somewhere?
Jul 1st, 2007Yea, I forgot to add that you can color calibrate easily on a Mac and there are very specific options that let you do so. i was extremely pleased at how accurate it was.
a lot of pc/monitors i saw had this very awkward calibration system where you have to adjust a leveling line yourself. hell, how can you ever know with naked eyes if the colors are right for whatever you're doing unless you have presets. it's just beautiful how the mac does it.
lol just sexy-wise, it should be illegal to plug a dell monitor on a macbook pro.
i guess that's just me, but in addition to the quality of the cinema, it's priceless to have it next to my mac. 200, 500... it's funny how i lost track of the price because of how satisfied i am with it. it just makes perfect sense.
you know... i haven't even talked about the looks of the Apple cinema compared to other monitors, but seriously, a silver frame with an apple logo-- how much would you pay for that instead of a cheap plastic frame with a dell logo? it's like buying that shirt from your favorite designer instead of going to just any shop.
btw, you can very easily calibrate the colors on your macbook if you see that the colors aren't right.
nevermind about eizo:
<img src="http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8812/picture1hd6.png" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/>
yes, if you're talking about performance, eizo owns. as for brightness, apple owns. i care so much more about brightness since i'm a designer and i don't game and probably won't make a difference in monitor performance 75 vs 83.
my LG came with a card im supposed to hold up to the monitor and use as a guide.
wtf right ?
yea and that calibration is by LG standards probably... you'll never know what's truest unless you have many presets for specific needs.
Jul 1st, 2007
Ok, having read that some think these pricey monitors are not worth it and are beat by Dell or Samsung is just ridiculous.
Jun 30th, 2007I'm not saying that you should buy it -- look into your budget. But if you have money to spend on a dream machine, get it. I did, and it's the one of the best things I've ever purchased.
Here's my history: 6 months ago, I hated Mac, and thought Apple had everything pricey unreasonably... until I saw people(Ika one of them) buy one and use it at the office. An Apple Cinema 23'. He loved it, and I was pretty jealous even tho I had 2 19' LG monitors at work, and LG monitors are probably some of the best close to Sony. There was Dell, HP and Samsung 23' and I never wanted to look at them.
On Dell btw, red looks like maroon. If you can avoid any monitor, avoid Dell. It's only "bright" if you watch movies. But for that "brightness", there comes a price: colors look washed.
Now I own a 23' Cinema, and even set it to lowest brightness sometimes. Often to half. It's even facing the sun. That's never happened to me working with monitors. Before this, at home, I had 2 Dell monitors but never got them dual together... why? Because the Dell 19' LCD was the screen for coding and my 17' Sony was there to verify the true colors. Of course, even that Sony I used to love so much is like crap compared to Cinema.
If you think that other manufacturers that sells cheaper monitors and that are better choices regardless of budget, you better have solid arguments, links, comparing images etc. You better have seen them in real-life face to face... because I did.
I've shopped many times, worked at many offices (5 last year) + home. Here's my ranking regardless of prices.
1- Apple
2- Sony
3- LG
4- Samsung
5- Nec
6- HP (washed colors too)
7- ...
99- Dell
Note: These manufacturers might have released models that are better and that have fixed the problems that I had, so if you are a good consumer, look into it and see with your own eyes. If you are not good with searching info/reviews, be safe and you can rely on my review. Take my review as a "safe" and "overall" judgement of those manufacturers, past and present.